Language testing

[tyhigaki]

I want to major in biology (pre-med classes).
However, I have taken 3 years of spanish in high school, and i also want to learn german. I wish to minor in foreign language.
At orientation, i was advised by "someone" to fail the language placement test during 1st bct (i think it's called DLAB), so that I will be able to take german and spanish instead of a "strategic language" (korean, arabic, chinese).
What do you think I should do?

[stoneturtle]

I think you should always do your best at everything. To me, that's the honorable thing to do!

Given that the taxpayers are paying for your education in these hard times, one way to look at it is to be glad to serve in whatever way they need you to, including learning strategic languages. My daughter had to come to terms with this recently when she was assigned to spend the next several years in a job she didn't want, and which didn't have anything to do with her major. It wasn't easy for her to accept, but that's where she's needed, so she'll do her best.

I always told her that you don't usually get paid for doing what you want; when you're doing what you want, you are usually the one doing the paying! Ha!

You can always take common languages like German and Spanish after you graduate, at colleges anywhere. You can take accredited university courses like that on many bases too, or through correspondence.

With the deployment rate like it is, and with further cuts in the military on the horizon, chances are very good you'll get to use these strategic languages anyway. Won't it be fun to be able to speak to the locals? So it's a win-win situation!

I think it'd be cool to be able to speak several languages. I struggle with languages myself, I wish I could learn them like you seem to be able to do. Good luck to you!

[pojack]

Originally Posted by tyhigaki

I want to major in biology (pre-med classes).
However, I have taken 3 years of spanish in high school, and i also want to learn german. I wish to minor in foreign language.
At orientation, i was advised by "someone" to fail the language placement test during 1st bct (i think it's called DLAB), so that I will be able to take german and spanish instead of a "strategic language" (korean, arabic, chinese).
What do you think I should do?

I wrestled with an answer to this post for awhile and the best way to answer it, at least, for me,is that to deliberately "fail" a test is dishonest and as such, could be a violation of the honor code. Granted, this may be before you are familiar with the "code" and all its ramifications, but dishonesty is dishonesty, no matter how you cut it. It is incumbent upon all cadets and appointees, to have a high degree of personal integrity and to always conduct themselves in an honorable fashion.

The person who told you to "fail" this test, is not your friend and more especially, think hard about accepting anymore "ideas" from this person during your stay at the academy.

[marciemi]

Okay, I'm going to back Tyler up here a little bit. My son was told the same thing by several cadets during orientation and others he's met beforehand. However, in his case, he has no real aptitude for or interest in languages and would just prefer to stay in Spanish rather than struggle through another one. We even went as far as looking up practice versions of the DLAB so that he would know which sections would be easiest to "accidentally" do poorly on!

However, I agree with what stoneturtle said and have been trying to convince him of that. Most likely at some point he will be in the Middle East and knowing some Arabic could be very helpful. Plus, if he gets placed into Spanish, it will most likely be a higher level class and he'll be stuck reading novels and writing essays. If he took Arabic, he could start from the beginning, which I think would be easier for him. When I spent 6 months in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, the first thing I did was have mom send me an Arabic dictionary. Never learned the language, but taught myself enough to read road signs, distances, and things like that. Seems a lot more practical to me than analyzing 18th century Spanish literature.

Just wanted to let you know you're not the only one being given this advice by cadets though. If you do end up in a strategic language, the other advice he was given was that Russian was by far the hardest!

[slaymans]

I couldn't agree more with what was said above. Our son did well on the language test and is taking Russian. He loves the Russian language and has enjoyed learning all about that part of the world. Always do your best - in the end you will be happy you did.

[aggie83]

Another thing that has been told cadets in the past, is to do bad on the Math test and you will be put in Algebra II instead of Calculus. Well, Algebra II is not even in any of the degree plans so it puts you 3 hours behind in your degree plan and you will have to catch up (of which there is not time built into the degree plan but summers). Of course, if you need Algebra II that is one thing. But to get behind in your hours deliberately to try to have a higher GPA for one semester (as in trying to get selected for JUMP) is really stupid and shortsided in my opinion.

[Jeff Ray]

OK..lots of good advice here, but maybe I'm missing something that is obvious. Can you go to someone ahead of time and share with them your goals? Could that person assist you in getting assigned to the path of your choice? A degree, or even a minor should always be your choice, not the needs of the AF. Who would that person be?

Happy Mothers Day Mom's.....Dads, I hope you made it special !! I'm just about done cleaning the house....lol

[scraper]

I disagree with Jeff Ray or let Jeff Ray buy everyones education. or maybe I am missing something that is obvious

[scraper]

The original intent of the question was one having to deal with honor, it is imperative you do your best in all test otherwise you short change yourself and your country.

[Jeff Ray]

Scraper I'm perplexed your reply? The intent was not honor, Pojack only mentioned honor .. The intent was (look at the original post) to find a way to get the language of choice to achieve ones true goals... Imperative ??? Look at this way. If a kid decides to go ROTC, he can select their own avenue of studies, and in the end both AFA and ROTC lead the same people. Why at the AFA does that get selected for you? I don't believe it is, or should be. Short changinging? please!!.... you short change yourself, and your country by not reaching for your goals.. My post was to think about looking for options to help you with your goals.

[tyhigaki]

Thank you everyone for the responses.
I plan on trying to excel in everything challenge (or test) that I am presented with, including the language test.
Is there any way I can take multiple languages (ex: a strategic, and some other language)?

[stoneturtle]

If you can validate something, it can free up time to take something else. Although free time is a very precious thing in and of itself!

[scraper]

Not going on and on with this, but he was told to fail at orientation to get what he wanted. That was the point, you being in the 2013 class should know there are people their to advise you on your path and selections but at the end of the day you will go where they need you the most. If my tone offended you I apologize. Is Snider German?

[Jeff Ray]

Scraper.... : to grate harshly over or against b : to damage or injure the surface of by contact with a rough surface

You gave plenty of thought into your name.....No surprise though... you have heard this before I suspect !!

[gomezcamp]

I find all of the replies/ questions and the topic interesting. Bryan took 4 years of german in HS. He did his best on all tests. He was able to validate several german classes and is well on his way to a minor in german. This after he was told not to validate anything. You need to do what you know is right in your heart based on your upbringing and it will ultimately place you were you are supposed to be. You need to weigh what people are telling you and try not to plan your path at this point, go with the flow, do your best, after all you were selected because someone thought you were the cream of the crop.

[scraper]

[stoneturtle]

Originally Posted by Jeff Ray

Pojack only mentioned honor...If a kid decides to go ROTC, he can select their own avenue of studies, and in the end both AFA and ROTC lead the same people. Why at the AFA does that get selected for you? I don't believe it is, or should be.

I think most of us were talking about honor. Not just Pojack. I certainly was.

Cadets at USAFA will make many sacrifices that their contemporaries in ROTC do not make. It's good that kids who don't want to make those sacrifices can choose another route and still serve. It's also good that we still have young people who are willing to make those sacrifices and strive to be the best!

I'm not sure that a cadet who is firm in his wish to pursue a specific language can't find some way to do so, but judging by the amount of discussion by cadets about being shoehorned into specific languages, I think that it must be quite difficult if it is possible. I know that my daughter was placed into Arabic (and ended up loving it and changing her major because of it) without even being asked what she'd like to take.

[tyhigaki]

stoneturtle, you talk about being "shoehorned" into a language..
so, will I have no choice in choosing the language I wish to study?

[stoneturtle]

I'm not sure, but it seems that most don't, given the amount of "discussion" (read "complaining") about it. It's my impression that you're assigned a language depending on your performance on the aptitude test. There might be ways to change what you're assigned but if so, it must be difficult enough or have sufficient consequences that most don't choose to do so.

You'll have fewer choices in any of your courses than you would at a civilian college, not just language. What courses you take will be determined by your major (which, as far as I know, is entirely your choice). Every semester you'll get your schedule assigned, including intramural activities. You don't get to design it yourself like you would at another institution.

Like any school, there are courses outside your major that you'll be required to take to graduate, but you'll have more engineering/math/hard science courses than civilian schools, no matter what your major. This is so that you will qualify for a bachelor of science, even if you're majoring in history or some other "fuzzy" major. As it turns out, this is a good thing, because you might end up being an airplane maintenance officer even if you majored in Foreign Area Studies-Middle East!

There are procedures for changing your schedule though. For instance, my daughter had a course on her schedule that didn't count for her major so she was able to get that changed. I remember a bit of angst in her communications during that time, so I think it wasn't easy. Probably because she didn't easily find the time to carry a form for signatures, that's usually what she finds challenging. I don't believe she experienced any opposition.